David Behan's Web Design Ireland Blog

Geocoding Addresses in Ireland

I’ve got a nice application that I have built and been using for Auctioneers and Estate Agents that allows them to manage their property website, which I have built up and upgraded over the past 6 years. The latest version is quite advanced and we are constantly upgrading it with new technologies available. The feature list usually comes from the clients we have using it but I do visualise some of them in the most bizarre places. :)

Anyway, the latest one I’ve been considering is automatically pinpointing a property on a google map, yahoo map or a map24 map (whichever we decide to stick with long term - see this post for more on the differences). Currently, you type in the address of the property, features, pricing and click on the location of the property on the map, which in turn returns the coordinates that get saved to the database. However, there has to be an easier way of doing this. I’ve done a bit fair bit of research into Geocoding in Ireland and there doesn’t seem to be an easy, cost effective and accurate way to do this. I’ve found the following on my travels around the web…

John Handelaar - The Holy Grail of Irish Mapping
johnhandellaar.jpgJohn has successfully hacked the Lycos Route Planner in order to get the coordinates and plot them on a map. That’s great. It works. But can others use it? Does it violate usage agreements? Will it always be available? I’m well impressed with this that it works but to use this method on an ongoing basis, I wouldn’t feel too happy. Someone made an interesting comment on his site that he should possibly run an application to feed addresses into his hack and generate his own geocoding database! Lycos would get suspicious after X amount of requests I’d say. This hack of an application does quite well at getting down to a particular address at street level. It was Google Maps that failed to display the map of the street I was looking for since they didn’t have the area fully covered.

Google AJAX Map Search Wizard
googlemapsearch.jpg While browsing last night, I came across this beta application from Google, thanks to Cormac for leading me in the right direction. This seems like a nice application but being Google, they really fall behind when it comes to providing Ireland with up to date services. It really all boils down to the potential market in this country I suppose - 4m compared to the UK with 60m. Why should they bother? Well, they save a lot by putting their taxes through Ireland! I did some searches and route planning through this application and wasn’t too impressed. I searched for O’Connell Street, Dublin, Ireland and I got some place in California. So, I moved back a step and searched for Dublin, Ireland and this time got Mespil Road in Dublin. I then clicked the directions link, which launched up their main maps site. The best directions I could find was from Dublin, Ireland to Navan, Meath, Ireland. It couldn’t find streets within either of these areas, which basically makes this service fairly useless in Ireland.

Geo Directory Ireland - An Post and OSI Project
geodirectory.jpg This is the official directory of addresses in Ireland, run by An Post and Ordinance Survey Ireland (OSI). It is possible to purchase the geodirectory for your own use but the pricing page on their site is not very self explanatory, in my opinion. It looks to me that if you want to make 575,000 requests for addresses, it will cost you €44,375 plus a user fee as well. That’s annoying. Although you have to pay for this service, it is probably the most accurate you can find out there. Other databases around the world are probably being fed from this one. Maybe Google should buy the database from them?

Anyway, this got me thinking about 1) getting this into my application above in a cost effective and accurate manner, and 2) if I have a way of doing it for my own application, offer it to the public to use and possibly an API as well. More research found a company that provides a very accurate geocoding directory of Ireland. I did some tests on it and it came out on top. They have a couple of API’s available - free and paid - and I’m looking at integrating their services into my application and possibly building a standalone application that others can use. So, my question to you, would you be interested in this service being freely available to the Irish public and possibly have an API made easily available to you for integration into your own apps? If so, let me know your thoughts with a comment below.

I won’t pass out the name of the company I have found until I get a bit more research done on pricing, services, etc. but drop me a mail if you are looking for something like this for your own site. If you can work with AJAX API’s like Google Maps, you should be able to work with this one that I found. I’ll provide a full review of them when I get to talk to their sales team and find out the limitations to the free version and the benefits to the paid.

Thanks for reading! :D

19 Comments (post a comment)

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Niall  spacer

David,

I was in a very similar situation as you are. I tried several different sites, api’s etc and couldn’t find anything suitable. had the same problems as yourself. I would be very interested if you have found something that may do the trick. Send me an email if you find a resolution to the problem.

Thanks,
Niall

March 7, 2007 @ 6:22 pm
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David  spacer

Hi Niall,
Thanks for your comment. I started playing with an api after posting to this blog and have managed to create a page that returns the coordinates of an address in Ireland. These coordinates are in WGS’84 format and I’ve to write some more code to convert them to Google/Yahoo format. Once I get it working, I plan to do the following:
1. Have a page that pull outs a Google/Yahoo map based on the address entered.
2. Have a page that produces an xml file based on the address you send to it in the querystring, e.g. have a look at http://developer.yahoo.com/maps/rest/V1/geocode.html similar to this but one that actually works for Ireland.
I’ve set aside an hour or two to look at it this weekend so hopefully I’ll have something next week! :D
Dave

March 7, 2007 @ 6:39 pm
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Michele  spacer

Dave

Something like this would be excellent. I’ve a number of “mad” ideas that would really benefit from “idiot proof” access to this kind of thing

Michele

March 8, 2007 @ 8:47 pm
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David  spacer

Hi Michele.
Somehow that doesn’t surprise me! :D I think there are a lot of people out there that would love to use this sort of thing but don’t want to pay the crazy prices the geodirectory are charging. Hopefully I’ll be able to provide something.
Dave

March 8, 2007 @ 9:33 pm
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Michael  spacer

Hi David,

Some very interesting ideas there, I see you have done some real research into this.

I’m currently trying to code a site that will feature a database of locations, each with geo coordinates. One feature of the site will allow users select a number of locations, and generate routes linking those locations subject to varying criteria (preferred start/finish point, shortest route, etc). E.g. you could have two very different routes for the same set of locations if one route was optimised for shortest pedestrian path and another was produced for driving directions, considering one-way streets, pedestrian lanes etc.

Now, while trying to get my head around how to code all this is simultaneously enjoyable and head-wrecking, it seems I could knock a large chunk of it by making use of an Irish geocoding API. I would be very interested in hearing any follow up to what you’ve mentioned above. This blog entry is being bookmarked for a start!

March 13, 2007 @ 2:07 am
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David  spacer

Hi Michael,
I was hoping to get some time over the weekend to look into this a bit further. I did a mock up page for testing but didn’t get much time at it. I’m off to New York on Thursday and trying to get a lot done before I go so any spare time is being spent on client websites (note the time of this posting - still working)
I’ll definitely getting this up and running in the coming weeks. It’s one of our nice to have features for our property cms application but it is quickly turning into something that a lot of people really need/want in Ireland. I’ve hit a couple of snags within the api I’m working with. Sometimes, the address co-ordinates that are returned are in the wrong county or location but I think there is a way of showing alternative results. I suppose this can’t be helped in Ireland as we don’t use postcodes. Also, the api tends to be a “tad” bit slow in response. I’ve to look into a way of making it a bit more light weight because I don’t think I need all the features that it is providing.
I’ll be aiming at having a basic application preview for people to see and try out after I’m back from the States. I’ll be looking at the week of Monday, 26th for a preview but I’ll keep you updated once it goes live.
Your application sounds quite interesting. Have you looked at http://www.useamap.com. They done a nice job of creating a nice directions type system using a mixture of mapquest and google maps. Don’t think the site uses geocoding but maybe they’ll put it in if it is available to them! :D
Look forward to talking to you again.
Rgds, Dave

March 13, 2007 @ 2:30 am
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Joseph  spacer

Hi Dave,

Looking forward to seeing your work. Ireland badly needs this service and is currently lagging behind the rest of europe.

Joseph

April 9, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
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Niall  spacer

Hi Dave,

Just wondering if you made any more progress with this. I have been playing around alot with Virtual Earth (http://dev.live.com/virtualearth/sdk/) recently. It does seem much better than Google Maps, more detailed. Also a bonus that it is easier to hook it up to .NET. Though getting coordinates from an Irish address is still a problem.

Niall

May 3, 2007 @ 11:44 pm

Yeah, but *which* web service did you find?

I’ve got a WGS84-to-x&y PHP class here already (it’s how the DSL coverage maps were done).

May 4, 2007 @ 8:10 am
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David  spacer

@Niall: To be honest, I really haven’t been able to apply the time to this as I would like to. I’ve so many project commitments on at the moment that it is hard to find the spare time to do anything. I need to use one of my projects as an excuse to work on this so I’m looking at one to do it for. Hopefully I’ll be able to do it soon.

@John: Missed you at BarCampDublin. I heard you normally attend them and would have enjoyed chatting to you about this. If I remember correctly, you use the hack the lycos route planner, which (afaik) uses the map24 directory. So the service I’m trying out is the map24 one. I wouldn’t mind getting a hold of the php class. I work in ASP so I’ll need to translate it over but it shouldn’t be too difficult with that as a start.

May 8, 2007 @ 10:49 am
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dave  spacer

Hi David,
Just wondering if you have any further updates on this?
Any info is greatly appreciated.

May 20, 2007 @ 7:08 pm
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David  spacer

Hi Dave. Unfortunately, I don’t. It really has been crazy busy here and I haven’t been able to dedicate any time towards it. I hear you calling though so I will try and squeeze in a bit of time to work on this. Keep at me though… :D

May 25, 2007 @ 3:34 am
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Pat  spacer

Have a look at mapflow (www.mapflow.com) based in Merrion Sq. They have a product called location agent that does this job very nicely. Mostly commercial sector tho.

August 8, 2007 @ 12:49 am
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Tom  spacer

David, Google has announced geocoding for Ireland.

August 8, 2007 @ 5:02 pm
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David  spacer

Hi Tom,

That looks really interesting. I’ve just been playing with it there and it has been running quite nicely. It’s been finding some quite obscure addresses without fail for me. The scary thing is, it’s actually been finding the house numbers as well and been accurate as well. Excellent find. Thank you kindly. I’ll put up a post dedicated to it now.

Rgds, Dave

August 8, 2007 @ 7:00 pm

so what was the company with the geocoding and apis?

August 21, 2007 @ 6:33 am
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David  spacer

Hi Steve,

The company I was initially dealing with for the geocoding was http://www.Map24.com but now Google have released geocoding for Ireland so I’ve started using that. Please see this post:

http://www.davidbehan.com/blog/?p=42

Rgds,

Dave

August 23, 2007 @ 9:22 am
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map quest  spacer

map quest

Tracking down the top google maps sites is not easy.

September 23, 2007 @ 2:21 am
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Appliance Parts  spacer

This program is quite nice, but I the thing that really interests me is the accuracy of pinpointing the location of the estate and if this software can be modified as to be used in other locations than Ireland.

February 5, 2008 @ 5:15 pm

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